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  • Any mommy do not beat your kids ?

    I am a firm believer of not using violence on my kids. I explain to my kids why they should have good behaviour, show them the correct behaviour, use time out, and the naughty corner. Or simply ignore them when they cry or throw tantrums. It has worked very well. Teachers commented that both my kids are very well behaved in school. At home they do mis-behave like fight with each other, but still manageable.

    There was once I put my younger boy in the naughty corner because he beat his sister. His Daddy wanted him to say the statement "I promise not to beat anyone again." But he was very persistant, and refused to say a word. He sat there for more than 2 hours ! That time he was not yet 3 years old. I almost wanted to let him off, but my hubby said we have to break him.

    Finally he did say that statement. I wonder if our approach is mentally too tough for a boy so young ? I wonder if it is normal for a young child to be so stubborn ?

    What would you do if you were me ? I still firmly believe in not beating my kids.

  • #2
    Here's what *I* would do if my child of 2 hits his sibling. I would firstly remember that even though a child this age might know what is right/wrong (obviously I think this child already has been taught/told that hitting is not acceptable), at the age of 2, he has not developed enough impulse control to stop himself at the point of hitting. Even as adults, how many of us can claim to have perfect impulse control?

    Secondly, I would realise that even if he feels truly guilty and sorry for his actions, it does not mean that he is emotionally mature enough to be able to make himself outwardly behave like he is truly sorry (how many times have we adults done/say something horrid to our partners and yet find it hard to apologise? ), bearing in mind that if he IS indeed sorry, then internally he is already dealing with the natural consequences of his actions- guilt.

    Plus, the punishment of being made to sit in a corner in addition to the above would mean that he feels even worse. And when a young child is overwhlemed with so much emotions internally, I personally really do not expect him to be emotionally mature enough to calm down on his own sufficiently, to reflect on his behaviour, and then decide to apologise because thats the right thing to do.

    So when my very strong-willed dd went through a hitting phase a year back (she was nearly 2 then), I find no need to impose artificial consequences because the natural consequences are already enough for her to learn her lesson- which is for her to see that her reluctance to control her actions has caused her to hurt another person physically; And to see how hurt the other person feels. In my dd's case I was the person she lashed out at, so it was even more painful for her to realise that she has hurt her person she loves most. (and no, I dont purposely pile it on and guilt-trip her cause its not neccesary) I think it also helps that since we do not *ever* hit in our family, the natural impact of her actions are more astounding when she went through that phase. (Eg, If a mum regularly hits her kid, it wouldnt be as big a deal to the kid if the child hits and the mom goes "omg... sweetie you just HIT me." get what I mean? )

    Another important reason why I (we) dont do punishments as much as possible is because I do not want the artificial consequences (timeouts, hitting, threatening) to override the natural consequences. I want my dd to not hit because hitting hurts and shows complete disrrespect of another person's body and rights; NOT because she is worried about getting a timeout or having to miss playtime or even just because mummy says so.

    For us, having a strong-willed and spirited child is a blessing, and my parenting goal is not to break my dd's precious spirit nor to control it, but to help her harness and control it herself, so that she will be able to use this amazing trait to her advantage in life. We believe that most extraordinary people who do extraordinary things in life are the spirited ones with strong will. (but of course these people are not necessarily the easiest nor most convenient to parent when younger? )

    I am not sure many mummies will agree with me, but thats what *we* firmly believe in.
    mango
    Cozy Star
    Last edited by mango; 11-10-2007, 06:43 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Tararind, I personally feel each parent and child relationship is special and unique and no one style should fit all. Having said that, if I were in your shoe, I would not ask my child to repeat a sentence after me. If he repeats that does not mean he understands and vice versa. At the end of the day, your hubby is angry not that he has hit his sister but more because he has been defiant and refuse to repeat after him. It is more like his authority as a father has been challenged.

      For me, I don't get overly upset if my child does not behave correctly. I will explain, and ask her to apologise to the other party. I do find that when you give a child alot of respect, love and assurance they may be more receptive to correction.

      Also, I think sometimes it takes a child a period of time to correct a behaviour. If you make a big deal out of it, it will back fire.

      Sincerely, Tanya

      Comment


      • #4
        Tanya,
        Actually we are not upset in at all. I normally will just ask my son to apologize to his sister. He will say "Sorry" very quickly. But that time my hubby wanted him to say ""I promise not to beat anyone again". My boy probably did not agree, because his sister bullies him sometimes, and he did not think that he is wrong to beat her when he is being bullied. I believe he understood the statement perfectly, that's why he is not willing to say it at first.

        But we want to teach him that it is wrong to beat anyone, even when that person bullies him. We are not trying to make a big deal out of it. That's why we just make him sit in the corner and think about it. Many other parents would have just beat the child instead.

        The only thing is I didn't expect him to be able to sit there for 2 hours. Should we have just let him off earlier ? Then he would think that since he can get away with it so easily, he would do the same thing again.

        mango,
        I think there are very few parents like you, who think that it is not necessary to punish a child, not even making him sit in a corner.

        I think in your case, your dd is very sensitive and caring for you. That's why the natural consequences are sufficient. In my case, my boy is different. Sometimes when he accidentally hit me or my mother, and it really hurt terribly, he would just cover his ears (in case we scold him) and smile, he does not feel any remorse at all. So your method will not work on him.

        We are not trying to break his spirt or control it, we are just trying to teach him what is right and what is wrong.
        tamarind
        Cozy Star
        Last edited by tamarind; 12-10-2007, 10:38 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tamarind View Post
          mango,
          I think there are very few parents like you, who think that it is not necessary to punish a child, not even making him sit in a corner.

          I think in your case, your dd is very sensitive and caring for you. That's why the natural consequences are sufficient. In my case, my boy is different. Sometimes when he accidentally hit me or my mother, and it really hurt terribly, he would just cover his ears (in case we scold him) and smile, he does not feel any remorse at all. So your method will not work on him.

          We are not trying to break his spirt or control it, we are just trying to teach him what is right and what is wrong.
          Tamarind,

          For me, I believe that just because a child does not show remorse at such a young age does not mean that they do not feel it. Especially considering that for some kids, true (not forced) internal empathy does not kick in till 3 or even later in some kids. Also, my decision to use natural consequences as THE consequences in our family is not reliant on my child's reactions, unlike what you say about how I practise what I do on my dd only because it 'works'. Timeouts as punishement is not a discipline option in our family, simply put. (Unless its a self-imposed ond, like when *I* feel I need a timeout, I leave to sit alone to cool down, or my DD gives herself a 'timeout' to cool herself down).

          I also think that just because immediate results can be seen right away does not mean a method is 'working'. Similarly, just because we cannot see immediate results by guiding a child a certain way does not mean that it has failed or that the chlid is not internalising the message.

          I mentioned the not 'breaking' of the child's spirit part because you mentioned that your hubby thinks that you should 'break' him. so I was merely sharing my views on that.

          I guess since parenting is one of the most subjective and personal topics around, we cant all agree on one thing of course. : Anyway I replied and shared my personal views cause you did asked what I would do if it were me, so what I replied was simply what we would do. And I just want to say that all the above I've said only relfects on my personal opinion, on what we believe in. Its not meant to put down any parents out there who have different beliefs.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Tatarind, I think you started this post because you are a loving mum who wants to hear others out; find a solution......Thru my interaction with my daughter, I do believe children are capable of reflection/learn from experiences at a very young age. I feel that reflection whether for an adult or a child in itself cannot be a bad thing. However, if 'timeout' means, a child is dragged to a corner, alot of crying, very unpleasant atmosphere (like seen on some tv programmes) then I cannot agree to that. I feel that learning experiences should always be pleasant. If there is so much negativity during 'time out,' I don't see how anything positive can come out of it.


            I am a firm believer that love conquers all and prefers to make every learning experience a positive experience. You may want to try a different approach and understand your son's love language instead.

            Read: The Five Love Languages of Children

            Finally, this is a quote from the writer of the book:

            "If a parent uses spanking as the usual way of treating all disobedience, the child will likely be hardened by the spankings, and become even more rebellious. The first principle of discipline is that the punishment must fit the crime. Spanking for minor infractions is irresponsible parenting. Also, spanking administered out of parental anger will almost always engender resentment in the child. Such angry behavior often leads to child abuse. The best way to avoid such parental failure is to decide ahead of time what punishment the child will receive if he violates a rule. Then administer that punishment when the crime is committed. This will save the parent from over-reacting in the heat of emotion.

            It is helpful to remember that children respond differently to spanking. For some children, spanking will be totally ineffective as a means of correction, which is the purpose of all discipline. Also, the child whose primary love language is "physical touch" will be more deeply hurt when spanked. The parent is using the child's primary love language in a negative way. This child will feel the pain far more deeply than a child who has a different love language. "

            I just want to say, I do not think I know more than any other parent. I am always learning too. We all have different set of situation, circumstances, personalities & temperments (parents & child), values, beliefs, personal childhood experiences and parenting style so what works for one may not work for another. But, I know as parents, we just want to do our best

            Cheers,
            Tanya
            naughtygirl
            Cozy Celeb
            Last edited by naughtygirl; 12-10-2007, 10:18 PM. Reason: correct spelling

            Comment


            • #7
              mango,
              Yes you are right I did ask for your opinion. But I find that your method will not work for my case. There is actually no consequences at all. He beat his sister, but it's not hard at all, there was no red marks, and little pain. But we want him to know that even without consequences, it is not right to do so. Even if there were consequences, I am quite certain that he does not feel any remorse, even though he did not show it. I know there are many adults in this world who do not know how to feel remorse.

              I totally respect your opinion. Ideally your method is the best method for a child. But in the real world, it does not suit every child.

              naughtygirl,
              I mentioned right from the beginning that I do not spank my kids. So your quote is irrelevant.

              I started this thread, not because I want to find a solution. My boy actually does not have any discipline problem. He is well behaved most of the time.

              I started the thread, because I do want to hear from other mommies, what they do when faced with a very stubborn child, other than using the cane. What you and mango are suggesting that I do not do anything at all. But I don't believe that my boy will learn if we do not do anything.

              Anyway, I used the naughty corner only a few times. Every time he was only there for at most 15 mins, except that one time. My boy will cry, but he will not try to leave that corner, and we never had to drag him back there. I do believe that we should use love to teach and nurture our child. That's why I never beat my kids. But I think some form of discipline is necessary. Some kids will never learn if you always let them off so easily.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tamarind View Post
                What you and mango are suggesting that I do not do anything at all. But I don't believe that my boy will learn if we do not do anything.
                Hi, even though your above statement was not addressed to me directly but a reply to naughtygirl, I would like to clarify my own stand. I am not suggesting that you do nothing, personally I dont think that any responsible mom will do nothing at all if this child was their son. I guess maybe to you, you feel that its absolutely necessary for you to have to inpose artificial consequences of some sort before you will be at peace with your way of handling, or feel that your son has learnt something. This is not the case for me, maybe that is why you feel that as long as you are not imposing artifical consequences, its considered doing nothing.

                I hear that you do not agree with my suggestions or feel that it will never work on your son, and I can certainly respect that. I believe that we can peacefully agree to disagree. The purpose of this post of mine is simply to make it clear to anyone who might be reading, that its not nothing I would do, or worse, that there wont be any consequences like you said; I cant even imagine watching my child hurt another child of mine and doing nothing about it. In fact, I am the sort of mom who takes great pride in turning most undesirable behaviour/phases into valuable learning opportunities for the both of us (my dd and me).

                Also, to anyone who might be reading this, I would like to clarify that the word discipline mean to teach, not to punish (yes, I do know that punishments can be a form of discipline too). As well as that teaching and learning can take place without the use of imposed punishment. Of course, I know there are parents who believe that without the use of punishment at all, the child will not learn much/anything. This is something I think opposite of; And is definitely another discussion left for another day, another thread.

                My apologies if you felt that I have commented too much, I shall cease to give more suggestions. Goodluck in your parenting journey!

                Comment


                • #9
                  As a soon mum-to-be, I am very interested in hearing views and getting tips from mummies. Hence, I hope mummies will continue to contribute and share.
                  I believe there is no absolute method nor a best way to suit all children as every child is different. We just hope that what we do or think is best will work.
                  I understand this is a very sensitive topic but I hope everyone will not take what others say personally but see it as a sort of sharing and exchanging ideas. Hence, I hope people who contribute will be able to share freely and see no need to be defensive. This will really benefit first time and clueless mums like me.
                  Hope to see more mummies contributing

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Dozalot

                    If you are ever interested or keen to read more about related topics, one of the best books I've ever come across is "Becoming the parent you want to be", available in libraries and borders/kino. Very useful and excellent book, I learnt heaps from it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Chris,

                      About this method of yours. Can you care to elaborate? So you said that you did not do nothing, so what did you do? How did you make your child realise that by her actions, she has caused pain, as according to you, you don't emphasize that just to make her feel guilty, in one your earlier posts.

                      I will surely pick up the book that you recommended. I am of the mind that even if there is no physical pain involved, we should administer some other sorts of punishment, such as time-out or removal of positive reinforcements so it's good to know that another method is used.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        mango,
                        I mean to say you are suggesting that I do not do anything to punish my boy I want to empasize that I do respect and value your opinion that discipline is to teach, not to punish. I am sure your method works very well on your girl. And I think it will also work on my older girl. But every child is different, and as mommy to my boy, I am worried that my boy will not learn without punishment.

                        And to everyone else reading this thread, I want to clarfiy again that we have not done anything to punish my boy physically. I simply carried him to the corner, and he did not even struggle. He cried because he was unhappy, and he did not agree to what we were trying to teach him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Taramind,

                          No hard feelings.......when I reply, I was thinking of myself and I am this and this. I recommended the book, because it is a pretty good book.. I gave the quote because I thought it will benefit anyone reading this thread. I understand no one likes to be misunderstood. I am just a passer by who happened to saw your question. You were never judged. In fact, I heard you loud and clear in your first post, you firmly believe in not beating.

                          Best wishes,
                          Tanya

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Mango, I will definitely check the book out. I always go to borders and end up staring at the shelves because I have no idea what is good haha...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by kare2711 View Post
                              Chris,

                              About this method of yours. Can you care to elaborate? So you said that you did not do nothing, so what did you do? How did you make your child realise that by her actions, she has caused pain, as according to you, you don't emphasize that just to make her feel guilty, in one your earlier posts.

                              Firstly, what I would do is to firstly make sure that my child is not lashing out due to any underlying factors that is overwhelming him (H.A.L.T is a good check- whether the child is hungry, angry, lonely, tired). If he is, then I would fix that underlying problem before we start working on the hitting.

                              On the hitting, I would express my shock at his action ("oh no, you hit your sister! look, she is very upset, I think it really hurt her/ hurt her feelings! sister, are you okay? let me look at that. wow luckily the injury is not too serious etc") and try to give as much verbal information as I can on the effects it has on the sister this way. If such hitting takes place in an environment whereby no physical violence is ever used (bear in mind that some methods of discipline can be quite physically harsh even though hitting does not actually take place) or is ever an option, there will be an impact of some sort internally on the child.

                              I would also validate his feelings first before anything else. Validating would mean talking to him about how he feels, eg "you were upset because you wanted a turn on the doll and sister refused to let you touch it? you must be disappointed about it? were you upset because you wished you could xxxx?" This would help put the child's feelings into words, and help him remember some of the feeling words he could use next time. I read and realised for myself that its true that very often after the child's feelings are validated, they feel calmer and are in a better state to receive the 'lesson'. Also, very often a child hits because of his lack of his inability to express the overwhelming surge of emotions that takes over him at that moment, so the more verbal a child is, the less likely he will feel the urge to hit.

                              Then I would put my son on my lap and go to a quiet corner and talk to him about the effects of what he has done (how his sister might feel, what if the injury had been serious, etc) and why hitting is NOT an option within our family. And I would discuss with him about how he can better handle it the next time. I believe that equiping a child with tools to handle his frustration is as important as telling them what not to do. At 2, he might or might not be old enough to contribute; But the bottomline is to talk about various scenarios that might cause him to feel anger (toy taken away by sis/ not getting a turn on something/ etc) and the desire to hit, and what are the alternative ways he can express his anger/want. Or that he could come to me and see if I could help them work the problem out, and so on.

                              For those who thinks that this is too soft and ineffective, take a moment to think about this (thanks for reading this far lol! )- Have you ever had a really crappy day when things dont seem to go your way or something happened to make you feel unfairly treated at work and so on, and hence by the time you reached home, you are feeling really lousy. If during a day like that you happened to 'lose it' with your husband over something minor and feel bad about it. Would you show your guilt immediately even though you are already feeling it and knowing that its a bad move? Especially if he were to get angry at you for being unfair/yelling at him?

                              Would you wished in your heart that he would take you into his arms and ask you gently "whats wrong darling? I know you didnt mean to yell at me, whats bothering you? lets talk?" Or would it be more effective communication for him to start launching into a self-righteous tirade about how you should not yell at him, and how unfair you are, and how its your fault for picking on him since your work is not related to him? I think we all know the answer what would be more effective.

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