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  • Marriage - milestone or achievement?

    To me marriage is something that signifies a commitment between two people who are mature enough to know what they want, to build a future together with the possibility of procreation. So it qualifies as a milestone, something people do when they acquire maturity. Not like an achievement by which social standing is judged, like academic grades. Men or women alike should not feel that they are isolated from society just because they're single, nor should people be pressurized to have children when they're not ready to meet government target. Aging populations are worrying, but we are the way we are because of how circumstances molded us. Ironically sometimes I feel that shows like Sex and the City actually disempower women while seemingly portraying strong career-minded women who care little about others' opinions, flinging caution to the wind with their ONS (one-night stands), but are secretly insecure at being single. What do you think?

    I'm not saying that I'd like to remain single or otherwise, but I say, just see where life takes me and enjoy the ride.
    Last edited by Aphrael; 16-12-2004, 03:10 PM.

  • #2
    Heh, to me marriage seems more like a millstone than a milestone - I think society (the government, families & peers) places too much importance on what should essentially be a private committment between two people. Unfortunately, because of the consequences of two people making a committment to each other (namely children and therefore population demography), society has seen fit to impose all sorts of rules and regulations regarding the institution of marriage.

    That's what I think marriage is, essentially - an outdated institution that forces people to conform to society's standards and expectations. I don't like how people who choose not to get married but are fully committed to each other in every other way are discriminated against (in terms of housing loans, taxes, policies etc) just because they do not have this piece of paper i.e. a marriage certificate to legitimise them.

    Of course, my view of marriage is an extreme (and personal) one. While I think that marriage is not for me, it may be something that other people need to do. I just think that too many people place too much importance on the need to get married by a certain age. Like Aphrael, I also don't like how society discriminates against people who choose to remain single, especially females (derisive terms like spinster are still bandied about, unfortunately. somehow bachelor sounds more respectful).

    And yes, I agree that Sex and the City, while seeming to celebrate the single woman, also boils down to a disturbing message at the end of the series - all of the women are paired off with some man, even avowedly-single Samantha. What does that say about the show, and more importantly, women? That even though we may say that we don't mind being single, that all we really want is to get hitched to some man? This brings to mind the old sexist adage about females - that when they say no, they really mean yes (like Mr Collins refusing to believe that Elizabeth did not want to marry him in Pride and Prejudice!). I'm sure the show's producers (SJP being one of them) did not mean for this message to get sent out, but that's also disturbing, because that means that an unconscious one was sent out instead.

    Err... *steps down from soapbox* these are just my rather incoherent thoughts on marriage. Heh.

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    • #3
      i would never see marriage as an achievement. can you actually?

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      • #4
        You'd be surprised at the judgement placed on people who are single. While my parents do not have a happy marriage, my mother still thinks that without a life partner a person is missing out on 1/2 of his/her life. Like it's something a person absolutely must achieve. I hate to think what her life was like before this unhappy mess of a family we have now. And based on my parents' situation, I am not keen to get married either.

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        • #5
          Hey Aphrael
          I think Im pretty in a much similar situation as you.
          Im not very keen in marriage bcos of that too...
          To me, I rather stay single and be happy with what I have and can have then to make a mistake that will marked me for life for the sake of doing it or pressure.

          If I can have it, it's a bonus, if I cant, well then *** too bad.
          I think life's more than that.
          Perhaps, I may sound as if Im eating sour grapes but when i see my parents' marriage for the past 20 yrs, I will start wondering if it was a complete mistake right frm the beginning? And perhaps my existence is so much of a redundant sometimes when I get to hear or see what my frens claimed as "family day"?

          Marriage can be a milestone and achievement for a couple to claim if everything turns out well but a complete nightmare to everyone else if it flops.

          You never know the impact and hurt you have inflicted upon them esp when you have kids.

          My worth.
          :wish:

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          • #6
            Words right out of my mouth. To be honest I just don't see myself there though I love kids. And the way I see the world, I just don't think it's fair to bring kids into it when it's so screwed up. I don't want the only motivation for me to get married to be the desire to have kids, because I will neglect the relationship itself, defeating the purpose. It wouldn't provide a nurturing environment when there's parental conflict anyways. I feel redundant in my family as well. It might have been better if my mother was unhappy right at the start to have gotten an abortion. That way she'd have a choice in how to live her life. Sometimes I feel that I should have stayed abroad and not come back and live with them. To move out, I'd either have to make bucketloads of cash or get married for the wrong reasons just to get out. But it's not come to that and I digress from the original topic.

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            • #7
              I felt the same way when I was doing my exchange in Japan too.
              Imagine you felt so placid and serene when you wake up everyday and no quarrels or disturbing scenes you have to bear to stop.
              Everyday is a pleasant day to look forward to!

              I hate the idea of having kids right after marriage when I see my cousins doing that.

              And frankly, I wont consider the idea of having kids if Im still living in Spore.
              I wont be a parent if im not 101% sure I can give them happiness.

              But like what I always do... Im tired of all their nonsenses all these yrs, SEE NO EVIL.

              Sometimes, igorance is bliss...

              No worries, Aphrael.
              At least you know chanceuxS will be your 1st listening ear if you wanna rant anything like this... LOLx.

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              • #8
                Sidetrack a bit.

                Do you have reserves in entering a r/ship unless everything is made apparent to you.
                Even so, you still wont dare to put in 100% coz for fear of getting hurt in the end?
                Unless something really touches your heart that convince you that the guy is true to you?

                My fren told me Im missing out a lot if I still have this mentality in mind, but I just cant myself to be so suspicious.
                Ive seen so many examples and to me, Eternity and those nice promises are just gibberish made at the act of impulse or on your sudden high...

                And I absolutely hate it when guys start playing mind games with me!
                I just strike them off een when I like them in the beginning...
                I hate people playing psychological warfare...
                So tiring!

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                • #9
                  Studies show marriage makes people happier? Maybe people who marry have easy-to-be-happy personalities? Then again another study has a link between people prone to alcohol excess, and marriage. Can't recall what it was exactly all about... was in the papers not too long ago?

                  I'm happy. Not that I'm never unhappy, but the happy moments are more than when I was a single/ in rollercoaster dating scene.

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                  • #10
                    Sidetrack away! Ha, you hit the nail right on the head with all those questions. Over the years there have been many interested but even at the ripe old age of 25 I haven't even been on one date. And I'm not ugly, seriously. What happens is I give off a really "cold" vibe and cut them off if I even sense something about to happen. I make it very clear I'm not in the market, or something to that effect. It's ridiculous, really. My friends cannot understand why there are so many people after me and yet I remain unattached. Hate the mind games as well. Talk about guys being aggressive - there is a certain subspecies that thinks it's highly desirable and god's gift to women, that women should grovel. Then when I make it clear I'm not interested suddenly become so rude I wonder why when we are nothing more than mere acquaintances in the first place. Not everyone wants to sleep with you. Get over it.

                    I am hesitant about having children in Singapore - but when I see how the rest of the world is, I realize it's not so bad. All in all, the world is a screwed up place. I love the Chinese culture and yet had a rude shock when I got to China and saw how rude the people were - a sharp contrast to the lovely poetry and beautiful scenery, and moral ethics right from ancient times. America, with its technological advances, has such a huge disparity between the rich and the poor, and such an appalling education system it horrifies me. Australia, where I've been for the past 8-9 years - seemingly peaceful country but again lacking in the education arena, and with its own brand of racism. I'm not stereotyping, it's just in the atmosphere. And there's no way I'll let my kids grow up and not know their cultural roots. My mother tongue is Mandarin, my language Chinese (I regret to say that my English is much more proficient than Chinese) - my kids will not go to school and learn a language that is not theirs by birthright. There just isn't a place for me. Singapore - apparently clean with its law-abiding citizens - and yet everywhere I go rude drivers with near roadrage accidents everyday. High pressure education system, poor language skills to be honest. I don't feel that I belong anywhere at all. And the costs of having a kid here are far too high to be practical. Japan - high pressure system, discrimination against other races. You never get ahead unless you're Japanese. I haven't been to Europe so I can't comment. But based on what I've seen it's ridiculous.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Medusa
                      Studies show marriage makes people happier? Maybe people who marry have easy-to-be-happy personalities? Then again another study has a link between people prone to alcohol excess, and marriage. Can't recall what it was exactly all about... was in the papers not too long ago?

                      I'm happy. Not that I'm never unhappy, but the happy moments are more than when I was a single/ in rollercoaster dating scene.
                      Well, marriage is protective for men and destructive for women according to some obscure study about coronary artery disease and alcoholism a while back.

                      I'm glad you're happy. Somebody has to be. Love your baby Mel!

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                      • #12
                        Yo Aphrael!
                        You got the cold vibe as I do! Whahahaa.

                        It seems to me that some of us have this mindset that we dont belong to anywhere.
                        We do have our fair share of best friends and love but somehow, sometimes you just feel so alone in this world.
                        Are we being too hard on ourselves, wallowing in self pity?
                        Seriously, I dont think so, else Im already in depression from what Ive been facing since Im a kid.

                        I never used my family problems as an excuse to neglect my studies. In fact it spur me to work harder so that I can get out of this whirlpool. I believe then that Education is the only key to bring me anywhere I want. We ace as students but on the other hand, 'empty' in the world of kinship and emotions.

                        Many a times, what friends can do is limited.
                        They just couldnt fill up the vacuum at that specific spot.
                        I believe everyone's has their own regrets in life and maybe that's where our lies in this aspect.

                        Talk about every nation's ethinicity and their guard against 2nd class citizens or foreigners.
                        Tell me abt it.

                        Japan's labelling of foreigners as, "Aliens" spelt it all out isnt it?
                        Ive been to various countries too.
                        And have my share of racism encounters.
                        I think this is human instinct to protect what they think should not be shared among different races.

                        I just had a talk with one of my frens on Spore's education system.
                        Im glad Im finally out of this league.
                        Frankly, I wouldnt blame our government for changing the system time and again.
                        But I would say it's both tiring and tedious for both teachers and students.
                        Most of us are under this system before. We should know no better.

                        Our education system always follows the trends of what our economy need. And this is sad.
                        There is no continuity IMHO.
                        We are always told that it os for the welfare ofour future, but is it reaping what we expected?
                        My teachers friends are not even sure what exactly is going on next and finds it a toil, not to mentioned the kids themselves.

                        Why is it that we dont read abt England and the States changing their system so much and often but they still thrive as one of the world's most sought after educational institututes by scholars worldwide?
                        It says something isnt it?
                        I certainly dont think they are just selling their names.

                        And Aphrael, from the topic of marriage to the point where I strayed off to the educational system, though we really REALLY side track a huge deal, but I really enjoy this.

                        you set me in thoughts again!
                        Whahahaa.
                        cheerios pal!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Medusa
                          Studies show marriage makes people happier? Maybe people who marry have easy-to-be-happy personalities? Then again another study has a link between people prone to alcohol excess, and marriage. Can't recall what it was exactly all about... was in the papers not too long ago?

                          I'm happy. Not that I'm never unhappy, but the happy moments are more than when I was a single/ in rollercoaster dating scene.
                          Hey Med!
                          Side track a bit 1st, but I love your cute baby!!!

                          Ok back on track.
                          Correct me if Im wrong but I beg to differ the part when you say pple who get married is coz they are happy easily. They are pleased easily.
                          There are friends whom I know stay together with their partners coz passion had took a change to more of a responsibilty?
                          And you cant deny that some of us here are too lazy to start frm sq one again, when the one they are with isnt the one they love most.

                          And pardon me again.
                          Im not here to discourage pple frm marrying but Ive read a journal before that stats have shown that among married couples in the world, only a mere 5% said that they are with the person they loved most?
                          Others?
                          Becoz they came at the right moment.
                          I wonder then, what is marriage to them?
                          This is in coherence with what Aphrael had brought up right in the beginning of this topic: we married for love? or coz it's time?
                          A station in life they must alight coz it says so in their time line?

                          Marriage to me is sacred.
                          A promise and commitment made by 2 pple in the world.
                          Just the exclusive two.
                          If I cant have the one I love most, I rather not settle for the 2nd best as I know I'll regret in no time and create another live tragedy, so to speak.
                          Maybe Im still young, what Im thinking os too perfect to make sense in reality but to date, I still seriously hold on to my beliefs.
                          Im 21 btw.

                          Most of my frens started having r/ships at a tender age and have 'flings' here and there over the years.
                          They are my friends still.
                          Though I dun really like it when they treat r/ships in that manner.
                          When I like someone, I really put in my heart and soul.

                          I dont like to 'play' the field as I know I cant afford to do that.
                          Self-protection I should say.
                          The fear of getting hurt.
                          Last edited by ChanceuxS; 17-12-2004, 07:11 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for the compliment.
                            No answers to all that. Ooo- just occurred to me, the MILlstone part could be the MIL attached to the spouse. But that would be the other thread!

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                            • #15
                              Aphrael : Sound like you have a lot of angst in you.

                              There's no Utopia, every place you go, there are the downsides.
                              Income disparity gap exist not just in the US, it might be less apparent here or not what you have witness but it definitely exist!!
                              There are rude people EVERYWHERE! I was standing on the escalator on the subway in Chicago, waiting to walk up much faster coz I was late. This well heeled, in suit black woman simply refuse to budge!
                              Told me off if I wanteed to walk take the stairs! ( And its common courtsey to stand on one side to let others go ) Some white guy standing just in front/behind us told the black woman its only common to move for others to walk up escalator, and she ended up scolded him too!!!



                              Its just about choosing the lesser of the 2 weasels .. i know my friends from Hong Kong would much prefer to stay there, than in Sg. I wish I share their passion about any one place.

                              If you are not intending to have kids, doesn't matter how terrible the education systems will be All systems are flawed, and you can only be truly satisfied when you govern the place!!!

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